Why Distance Learning?

Seth Fleischauer (00:00.91)
Hello everyone and welcome to why distance learning the podcast, the challenges, misconceptions about live virtual education. I'm Seth Fleishauer, founder and president of Banyan global learning. My co-hosts are Tammy mooring and Alison Mitchell of the center for interactive learning and collaboration or C I L C Tammy is not here today, but Alison is hello, Alison.

Allyson (00:19.628)
Hi Seth!

Seth Fleischauer (00:21.558)
And together we bring you real stories, expert insights and research back strategies that uncover the true impact of distance learning in today's world. Today we're looking at a dimension of digital learning that sits at the intersection of leadership since system. Now I need help Lucas. Thank you. Today we're looking. Today we're looking at the. It's Christmas Merry Christmas everybody.

Allyson (00:38.252)
We appreciate you so much.

Alexandra Salas (00:40.709)
you

Allyson (00:45.548)
You got this. It's okay. We're close to the holiday season. You got this. Don't worry.

Seth Fleischauer (00:51.012)
That's why I like live stuff because everyone's just like, you just you hiccuped. That's fine. That's normal. But like recorded, everyone's like, you got to do it right because it's recorded.

Allyson (00:56.216)
Yeah!

Allyson (01:00.366)
Yay distance learning medium in all the ways.

Alexandra Salas (01:06.659)
Okay.

Seth Fleischauer (01:09.614)
Today, we're looking at a dimension of digital learning that sits at the intersection of leadership, systems thinking, and student success, an area where distance learning has enormous untapped potential. Our guest, Dr. Alexandra Salas, has spent her career helping institutions navigate that complexity. She's the founder and CEO of Delmarva Digital Learning Association, an educator and entrepreneur with deep experience in higher education leadership, doctoral mentorship, and online readiness consulting.

Her books, Numbers and Cents and Shifts and Rifts examine what it really takes to support learners and lead through disruption, especially in the years during and after the pandemic. Today, we'll explore what digital learning requires from institutions where leaders continue to struggle and how innovation can scale when systems, people, and technology actually align. Dr. Salas, welcome to the podcast.

Alexandra Salas (02:02.734)
Thank you. Thank you for that wonderful introduction.

Allyson (02:06.158)
Hahaha

Seth Fleischauer (02:06.34)
well, thank you so much for being here today. am excited to learn more about your work. You founded Delmarva digital learning association. What inspired you to start this organization? What, needs were you looking to fulfill?

Alexandra Salas (02:23.749)
Well, a couple of reasons. I had been in the higher education space for many years in the classroom as a course developer, as an instructional designer, and also in leadership positions. So, and all related to digital learning. And at the same time, I also worked with the United States Distance Learning Association. I was on their advisory board first and then slowly made my way to the board of directors.

public policy chair and you know, so I have different functions and the US DLA is national, but they also in color encouraged state chapters and there wasn't one in the Delmarva region and given that I had been teaching at several institutions in Delaware. I thought, you know, this might be something that I can do and I was at a point in my career where I decided, you know, this is a good shift where I could

be as focused as I want, and focus on the things that are meaningful to me in terms of student success and innovation and how digital learning can support learning not just as an ancillary tool, but as a medium, as a conduit for learning, for change, for connection. And yeah, the rest is history.

Started small and figured out how to create it and then connected with the USDLA on this level and said, you know, I really would like this to be a state chapter and went through that process and here we are.

Allyson (04:02.766)
I love Delmarva. sorry, Seth, you're muted.

Alexandra Salas (04:09.924)
Yeah.

Seth Fleischauer (04:10.82)
So embarrassing. Allison, go back to what you were doing. Just do that, okay? No, no, no, please. I was making a silly joke.

Allyson (04:12.864)
No. Okay, sorry, because I didn't want to like think that you think that I was being like over talking. Sorry. Okay, I was still want to hear your joke. Delmarva though I am

Seth Fleischauer (04:27.886)
So, sorry, Alison Lucas asked us like, when we hiccup like this, if you can take, take a, take a beat and then start again. Yeah.

Allyson (04:31.811)
we have to pause. Yep.

So Delmarva, I really love this association. As I've mentioned here on the podcast before, I worked in Delaware, so I always love being able to connect with those that are also still connected to the wonderful Delawarean institutions. But Alex, you really were able to bring this on, and you also have a national, or excuse me, a conference each year, an annual conference that you've run two separate times, which is really, really wonderful. And I wonder, as you were designing that com,

as well as while you were thinking about the motivations behind designing Delmarva Digital Learning Association. Was there any misconceptions or desires for you to highlight awesome pedagogy or frameworks that you just thought in that region and across the nation it would be really beneficial to either debunk or spotlight for those that are

in distance learning or just emerging in this field.

Alexandra Salas (05:36.409)
Yeah, that's a great question. Honestly, the work for me really has always been about supporting students and student success. And because my experience has been both on campus, but online learning from the get from the get go. And I really have seen the transformation of digital learning. But I've also seen how different institutions

the different steps that different institutions take to further and to advance digital learning. And it's not always the same, you know, and we saw this during COVID, whether, you if there's an infrastructure issue, there's, you know, resources, you know, there are many different aspects that you have to evaluate to determine your online readiness. during...

during COVID everyone pivoted, know, everyone went to remote learning, but digital learning is not about remote learning, it's not about emergency learning, but in many cases it became, it finally reached critical mass, even though it had been around for like 15 years prior, because, you know, we've been doing it as, you know, developing courses, but it wasn't, it wasn't really considered, it wasn't really embraced by the traditional

Allyson (06:53.09)
You

Alexandra Salas (06:59.032)
you know, education, you know, establishment for learning just as a supplementary tool that could be used now to connect students. But over time, as we can see now post-COVID, a lot of things have changed. Those institutions who weren't supportive of it or didn't really know much of it, weren't steeped in it, you know, they learned and they made decisions about what they would do moving forward. Some have gone back to

just focusing on what they've done best in person. But others have really appreciated and have allowed themselves to learn more about how digital learning can be a part of how they teach and how they support students. Because it's more than just a platform and a framework for teaching. It can be used to support students in many different ways, in many different aspects of the student journey.

That's my long answer to say that yes, online learning has experienced many misconceptions and has received many various levels of support. And all of that has been contingent on the organizational structures that support or not, digital learning and the growth. you have to go case by case basis and look at individual organizations, which is where the online readiness comes in.

to determine that because there are many different things. There are institutions who might have the tools, but they don't really necessarily have the support or they don't have the policies in place to really support it. So it's a situation that needs to be evaluated with intentionality so that the leadership can make a decision about where does digital learning fit in

Allyson (08:52.75)
Mm-hmm.

Alexandra Salas (08:53.024)
the vision and the mission of the institution. And it doesn't, it's not for everyone and that's okay. But it does provide us with many benefits. And it's just like now we have AI, AI is our latest, the latest and greatest and everyone's talking about AI and there's some resistance, there's uncertainty about how to use it, what to use it for.

Allyson (09:07.194)
Hahaha

Alexandra Salas (09:18.24)
But you can't stop that train. Everyone is using it. know, everyone in general, but you know, students are using it right or wrong. Instructors are using the workplace are using AI and. As educators, I think are at least my mission is to continue to learn more and through the work that I do and the connections, the presentations, the books, the writing and all of that. Just provide support to dispel.

and to continue to learn as things are evolving, because this is something that is continuously changing. And we just have to prepare ourselves so that we could be at the ready, so we can be future ready for what comes next, which we don't know.

Allyson (09:59.979)
Yeah.

Seth Fleischauer (10:02.66)
Yeah. Ain't that the rub? so I just want to confirm here what I'm hearing about what you do. And it sounds like it's kind of, very bespoke school centered, consulting services that, that enact systems change, right? Like you're looking to understand, what schools are trying to accomplish getting to their, their mission and their vision.

Allyson (10:04.398)
for sure.

Seth Fleischauer (10:30.264)
Then understanding what kind of policies in place they have in place in order to be able to accomplish that sort of thing, how that's actually resulting in student learning and every step of the way you're kind of analyzing all of these things within the framework of what makes digital learning effective. Is that about right?

Alexandra Salas (10:48.708)
Yes, but I will add that what differentiates Delmarva from a consulting service is that we are a non-profit. We're a 501c3 and we are, you know, we seek grants and other types of support so that we can provide our services for free to be supportive. You know, there are times where like, where, you know, there are, you know, there

Every organization needs revenue right to be able to move forward, but that is really our our goal and so through our webinars through our collaborations. Through our our our coordinations with the US DLA and or other organizations and different partnerships that we're building and different types of communications and even with most recently we were able to connect with the Delaware charter school network to be able to provide them with.

different supports and continue to meet and build our networks because Delmarva is only two years old. So our first, you know, and thank you, Allison, for mentioning the conference. It was really a symposium. We're starting, we're making baby steps, but we're very intentional and we'll really, you know, this is a volunteer organization that is slowly growing. This year we doubled our attendance because we added that virtual component.

The first year we wanted to just do it all on site, which is great, but we also are very mindful that teachers who we want to support, not just college faculty, but district school teachers, they don't have a lot of time and they need professional development. So their schedules are really tied to the schedules of the institution for professional development, and that's fine. But they are also required to

to find other professional development experiences and it's difficult. So by us going online and providing different type of experiences. we try, like everyone wants to find their niche, right? And we don't try to mimic what other organizations are doing. There are many wonderful organizations in Delaware and in other states, other state chapters. Our passion is about collaboration and having conversations with our...

Alexandra Salas (13:06.157)
colleague organizations, our sister organizations, and working also through the US DLA to see how we can all grow. I mean, there is space for all of us. And what I bring is my experience in digital learning and student success, student support, and organizational change, leadership change. And so I'm very mindful of when I have conversations with the leadership of an institution.

I do look at policy because if they're lacking something in their infrastructure, that's going to be, that's going to impact how online ready they are or what they want to do. Similar to when I was an instructional designer, I sat with faculty and I asked them, tell me how you, what you teach, how you teach it. What do you want to teach? I couldn't come in with all my list of tools, right? All the education technology tools because I would scare them.

You know, it would be, know, and that is not how you approach working with someone about, with something that's new where change is involved, because change is difficult and it can be a little scary, you know, and especially when we're talking about like pedagogy and someone's, it's very personal, right? How, you know, they're very close to their subject matter and they have a way of teaching.

But if they make the decision to work with instructional designer to see what else they could do, then that's the beauty of making that connection. When I speak to different schools and leaders and I listen to what it is that they are doing, what are their challenges, what are they doing well, and then make recommendations on that end.

So it's a little different than consulting, but the consulting is there because you have to connect.

Allyson (14:59.66)
Mm-hmm.

Seth Fleischauer (15:00.676)
Sure. And so it sounds like you're borrowing from your own experiences, but definitely from your network in terms of providing options for solutions when you're speaking with schools, not only through Delmarva and the different people that you work with within those three states, but also through the US DLA. Are there like other sort of frameworks that you're borrowing from when you are

providing people with advice about what's going to work on all these different levels of systems change? Are you kind of like basing it on your own experience? How often do you reach out to your cohort to try to get a solution to something that is puzzling you? Take us through your process a little bit of how you make these recommendations.

Alexandra Salas (15:47.998)
Well, I created a framework that I use when I was working in administration at the university level that I use to help evaluate different aspects of when making a change or when making recommendations for change, what is my checklist? What are the questions that I would need to ask? And so it began as just like my own personal prompts. If I was told, well, I want, which

all of my previous positions had the word innovation in it. All my titles had innovation. And so I was the person that would come in and I was very fortunate that I was given that kind of confidence to be able to make recommendations. But in order to do that, I had to ask a lot of questions and a lot of hard questions sometimes. And sometimes it's difficult when you

when things have been working in the same way for a long time and then someone comes in and says, well, you know, what have you considered? You know, what are your milestones? And, you know, let's talk about accountability. So I created a framework based on the different roles that I've had over the years to help me help organizations look at their online readiness. And that

includes not just looking at what tools they have, but looking at their leadership, policy, governance, support systems, advising, you know, so because every part of the higher ed institution has some sort of connection to students and that makes an impact on student success. So, you we have to look at enrollment and retention. there's, you know, there are different

parts of this framework that I use as my baseline in having conversations with institutions.

Allyson (17:56.782)
My goodness, I love that so much. I'm just thinking about your framework. like, oh my goodness, this is so wonderful that we can all like refer back to thinking about different prompts. And so I guess that's how you really, that's what informs your approach, right? Like, because not only is it, you have all of this opportunity to work with your different individuals that you were helping design their curriculum around, but also you will have experience working in person and also on in-line.

like in online environments. So I wonder, is there anything that you've also found that's like a nice balance between the two or what have you learned from each of those that inform your approach today, both your approach for your own teaching, because you are a wonderful educator and organizer and leader, but also in the idea of how that might even help when you're helping those in the Delmarva or within your other professional roles.

develop their online persona as they teach.

Alexandra Salas (18:59.274)
Yeah, well, you know, there are many different frameworks out there that we use in for online learning. You Blackboard has an excellence framework. There's quality matters. The OLC has a framework. ISTE has a framework. mean, there's there are many different types of frameworks and they they all play a role. So you can pick one of those and you would do great because what do those frameworks do? They allow us to reflect and evaluate.

And then revise, iterate, rinse and repeat. It's not a process that ends when you make that initial change. Change is ongoing. There are many different circumstances that can change an institution's ability to successfully advance online learning and learning.

Allyson (19:30.229)
He

Alexandra Salas (19:54.657)
You know, I think that having having those those baselines, those frameworks as a guideposts for any type of conversation about strategic planning or looking at the future are are important. So, yeah, I mean, I think and then also making sure that, you know, we stay current by connecting with our peers and seeing what their experiences have been, because we can learn from that as well. And.

You know, and so part of the goal is in doing that reflection, know, organizations can take an honest look at where they are and what their strategic plans are and can they meet them? Can they realistically meet them what they need to do? So similar to any self study, like when you have to go through accreditation, at that point, everyone is immersed. Everyone at the institution has a stake

in either contributing information to be able to complete that self-study. I believe that that is not just a process that should happen once every few years for accreditation. It should be part of the practice in higher ed because change is happening faster than it has ever been. And so this kind of iterative of thinking and systems thinking is

where we need to be. Everyone does it differently. So there is no, I'm not gonna point you down one road and say, this is the only way. You won't hear that from me. I will ask you, well, what road have you taken? How has it been? That's really like, I ask a lot. think it's important to ask a lot of questions.

Seth Fleischauer (21:31.01)
Mm.

Seth Fleischauer (21:36.556)
Hehehehe

Allyson (21:37.004)
Hahaha!

Seth Fleischauer (21:43.545)
Hmm.

Allyson (21:43.846)
that's so great. And that resonates a lot with who I think about you as Alex, because you not only are amazing in the distance learning space, and I get to learn from you all the time in all different ways, but here at CILC, we get to learn from you as well, especially thinking about reflection, asking questions, meeting people where they are as the owner of bestowing yoga.

and you come and hang out with us and you teach yoga online for both kids and adults. We get to do that on Fridays. We have a wellness experience for kids. There's also an opportunity that's coming up on Tuesdays that you'll be able to do some yoga online for adults. Not that not everyone's welcome to all because learners are wonderful, but just so that you have a kind of a little bit of an understanding of the different path, there are two options.

That's something that I think is so wonderful. You're really, really wonderful about thinking about the audiences that you're meeting. And I can only imagine all of that as professional, but as a yoga instructor, what has teaching something so embodied and human in a virtual space taught you about connection and presence and what really matters in distance learning? We talk a lot about that idea of energy here, especially because

We love the stars here and tarot cards. We love taking breaths together. Happy winter solstice, everyone. So that's a real big opportunity for us to dive in a little bit more with you.

Seth Fleischauer (23:05.188)
you

Alexandra Salas (23:14.966)
Yes, thank you. Well, for a while, I really thought, you know, like, I kept these worlds separate because, you know, I just, I wasn't sure how I was going to present it. But over time, it just became clear to me that as part of the education ecosystem, wellness definitely had a component, a strong component. And the work that I was doing in yoga,

I wanted to integrate it. I wanted it to be part of my, who I am as an entrepreneur because it's real. I learned, and a lot of this I've learned through different experiences and working with other colleagues and other students, a lot of my doctoral students who were researching prevention science and they looked at trauma informed pedagogy and practices.

This was all during the time where like COVID just hit around the world. And so like everything just kind of happened for me at that time because my experience in overseeing advising and retention at an institution many years ago,

Allyson (24:19.182)
Came in like a wrecking ball with disincerning.

Alexandra Salas (24:40.673)
I learned as I was reading in this position that there was a lot of separation in terms of roles and I understand the reasons for that. But the right hand needs to know what the left hand is doing. And that meant that the advisors should connect with the counselors. There should be a platform where that information could be shared safely. We have FERPA, we have HIPAA.

everyone who works in different capacities, even financial aid, the financial aid office, they work with the student. And depending on what's happening in that student's life, that might impact how their retention, their enrollment, their completion, their persistence rate. So there are so many factors that impact a student. Tutoring.

access to support services, instructional services, technology services. Students just want someone they can go and ask the question to. You don't have to be the person that'll answer. You just have to be the person. Someone that they can become, they can feel comfortable, feel like they belong, that they're safe, that they can just say, look, I'm just gonna go to Allison, because even if Allison doesn't know, Allison will find the answer for me.

where they feel that they are being heard. You know, it's all about voice, belonging, appreciation. And so that, you know, so that's where the world started to kind of come together. And I created, well, I didn't create anything. I just allowed that ecosystem to blossom. I allowed it in my space. said, okay, I'm not gonna try to keep them separate anymore. I'm just gonna, you know, it's like everything that I...

learned in my yoga practice and my training really helped me through the different roles that I've had in higher ed in terms of the mindfulness, the patience, the understanding the connections, understanding the language of trauma, which the word trauma wasn't a mainstay, a word that you would hear outside of counseling. Maybe advisors would use it. It just felt that it was...

Alexandra Salas (26:59.969)
Trauma was such a strong word and it was outside of the realm of what advisors would do, scheduling classes, seeing how students were, but seeing how students are is also about their wellness. Like, how are you? How are you doing? And even though you may not be a counselor, providing or receiving professional development on how to manage, how to be a first responder in terms of trauma.

Allyson (27:13.166)
Yeah.

Alexandra Salas (27:28.013)
understanding trauma-informed practices, it really helps. It doesn't mean that you are now going to be, you will not have this burden on you and feel unprepared. Teachers are supposed to be there to teach. They know that. They don't need any additional pressures, but they are the ones that students see every day. Equipping them with the knowledge and strategies that will also help them, because imagine a teacher.

you know, and this could be a faculty member or a K through 12 teacher that has all those students, all those hours every, you know, Monday through Friday. That is, that is a lot. So who, what, what supports does that teacher have when all of, know, when everything is kind of dumped on them, you know, so, so it's, so the stemming yoga is, is not just about, you know, roll out your mat and let's, you know, let's do some poses.

It's different. I'm an educator first and I brought my education experience into the studio and I brought the studio into education.

Seth Fleischauer (28:36.74)
Yoga is life.

Allyson (28:37.038)
Yes, yes.

Alexandra Salas (28:39.615)
Yeah.

Seth Fleischauer (28:41.945)
one question that we ask on the podcast every time is about a golden moment. a time when like a story, a specific experience that made you feel like your, your work truly mattered in this medium. I'm hoping that you can share one of those stories with us.

Alexandra Salas (28:57.537)
Sure. Well, it was, I can think back to when I was an instructional designer. I was going through my doctorate program at that time and I worked with an anthropology professor who you know, Allison, and she, you know, I've been following her in her career since, you know, since we met. And so she was putting her anthropology course online for the first time.

And I got to work with her and it was a golden moment because being an instructional designer, at some institutions, an instructional designer was considered also a faculty. But in other institutions, it was not. And so connecting with faculty and providing them with suggestions about their course

when you are not a faculty, you're not a teaching faculty, it is not, it's not an easy, you know, it's not an easy proposition. And so you have to be able to connect in a certain way so that there, so you're not non-threatening, you know, just you have to present yourself as I'm here to support. You know your subject matter, I know these tools, and I don't know every single tool.

So, but if you tell me what it is that you want to do, I'm going to find the tool. You know, let's play. Let's play. Let's innovate. Let's what do you want to do that you haven't been able to do in their classroom? And so, you know, it was that moment which led to other moments where I was able to create with a faculty member chemistry classes online, you know, when it wasn't popular and an Arabic class online. So language learning classes online and

And so it was a big deal to me because it was early. You know, it was before you had the Coursera's and you had, know, and institutions really were investing in a lot of the technology to try to create these engaging courses because the technology was new. And then you had to figure, you had to determine, okay, if I'm creating this course,

Alexandra Salas (31:22.026)
How is it scalable? You know, we hadn't figured that out yet. You know, so if you have one person managing all these courses, how is that doable? Right? So do you give, how many licenses do you need? So there's a lot of questions, right, in terms of support and resources. But the golden moment was being able to work with this one faculty member who we were able to just bounce ideas off. And she was very open about, she was open to the fact that

Allyson (31:34.35)
Mmm.

Alexandra Salas (31:51.489)
There was something out there that could help her be more engaging and it would also help her in terms of streamlining her work. You know, we were learning about different learning management systems and how that can support on-campus faculty as well as online faculty. And my philosophy has always been if it benefits the students who are online, it also benefits the students who are on campus and vice versa.

And that also has led me to the support systems. You need to have support systems and a system that supports all of the students, regardless of whether they're part-time, full-time, on campus or off campus.

Seth Fleischauer (32:32.068)
Well said. yeah, I love that idea too of like, you know, seeing the campus as a broader, you know, both IRL and virtual, community, right. And, cause so many students nowadays, it's not that they're just taking virtual classes or just taking in-person classes. Like that's it's both, right. They're, they're mixing it up based on what works for them. And I think especially post COVID people see.

Allyson (32:33.452)
Yes.

Alexandra Salas (32:57.994)
Exactly.

Seth Fleischauer (33:00.126)
The virtual, as an option, right. And, so of course, anything, any systems that you're building for the online space are going to help the IRL space and vice versa because of the inherent connectedness of all of these different options for, for students these days. I also want to ask a question that is the title of the podcast. and it's why distance learning. So in your own words, why does distance learning matter?

both for now and for the future of education.

Alexandra Salas (33:33.792)
I believe distance learning matters because it's not distance. It's connected learning. It's futures learning. Digital learning, distance learning is a tool. It's a bridge. It's a conduit. It is a platform for engagement and possibilities that we've not thought about. So I've

truly believe it is part of our present and part of our future. We just have to be adaptable and versatile and continue to learn and of course maintain our standards. We want to be close to the technology that we're using. It doesn't mean that we have to use the technology for every single thing. But it is, but it's possible. It provides us with a lot of possibilities and

Allyson (34:19.118)
Hmm.

Allyson (34:22.51)
You

Alexandra Salas (34:29.856)
For learners who don't have an opportunity or don't have resources that are in rural areas or impoverished communities, sometimes digital learning, that is it. But we shouldn't look at it as, so they have digital learning. No, it's amazing. It gives you access. So digital learning is inclusive, it's accessible, it's the present and the future.

Allyson (34:41.399)
Yeah.

Allyson (34:49.538)
Yes!

Allyson (35:01.378)
Yes, that just made my heart so happy.

Seth Fleischauer (35:07.339)
yeah, very, very well said. Thank you so much. Allison, do you have any, last questions for Dr. Salas before we let her go?

Allyson (35:13.544)
No last questions, just so much gratitude. Thank you so much for taking time out to talk to us. Let us learn more from you about your career. And I've just had, there's so many different things that you said that I'm going to be reflecting on today after our conversation and take forward as I think about how I approach my professional career. So I'm always so grateful to learn from you. So thanks for stopping by and letting us know more about you and your work.

Alexandra Salas (35:33.342)
Well, thank you.

Allyson (35:38.198)
And everything will be linked in our show notes too. So all of the names and all of the different organizations that we mentioned, we'll definitely make sure are linked in the show notes so that all of the listeners are able to click around and find out more about what you have to offer. And like you said, it's about connection, not distance. So hopefully we'll bring some more connections.

Alexandra Salas (35:38.312)
And thank you.

Okay.

Alexandra Salas (35:56.552)
Yes.

Alright.

Seth Fleischauer (35:59.905)
And speaking of your work for our auditory learners, will ask on what website, where can they go to find more information about your work?

Alexandra Salas (36:08.058)
DelmarvaDLA.org and bestemmingyoga.com.

Seth Fleischauer (36:12.931)
Perfect. All right. We will link both of those. Uh, well, thank you so much for coming here today. If this conversation gave you a new angle on what digital learning can look like, please share it with a colleague. Follow the show. Uh, leave us a rating or a review. helps more educators find these insights. Thank you to Dr. Salas for joining us and thanks at all as always to Tammy and Alison and to our editor, Lucas Salazar, why distance learning? Because in the words of our guests today, it is inclusive, accessible.

Alexandra Salas (36:16.477)
Excellent.

Allyson (36:36.504)
Thank you.

Seth Fleischauer (36:41.324)
And it is the present and the future. See you next time.

Alexandra Salas (36:43.457)
Bye!

Allyson (36:44.623)
Bye!